| Author | Message | ||
     Glen Farley |
I am now at the "fill the pinhole and sand" stage getting ready for paint. My question - has anyone tried ( or know anyone who has used) the System 3 waterbased paint? The low toxcicity of the system appeals to me but if the finish is not durable or good looking - I will stick with acrylic urethane or enamel. Any comments of suggestions would be appreciated. Glen Farley Marysville, OH | ||
| Mal |
Glen, I'm a long ways behind your stage of progress, but I just read Ron Alexander's last-in-a-series of articles in Sport Aviation...this one on composite finishing. I sure found it interesting to read. It starts on page 97 of the September, 1999 issue. I hope this helps. Mallory Parmerlee of Shawnee, Kansas. | ||
| Fred Moreno |
Hi, I am visiting from the Lancair builders' site. I used the System 3 for primning my wings. It was OK, but a bit difficult to use and took days to cure enough to sand without gumming the sand paper. Since then PolyFiber Aircraft Coatings at 909-684-4280 has introduced a system of water based polyurethanes - primers and finish coats - which I have used. This is the way to go. It is different, but worth trying. You roll on the primer in several coats which fills the pin holes effectively. (That's right- you use a little roller. Nice since there is no overspray and I am building in my family room.) Then you sand, and the stuff sands beautifully. A first quick pass with 120 then 240, then most work with 320 grit. I could have cut 100 hours off my sanding time on the wings. They also make a super light epoxy filler to use in lieu of micro, and I just finished doing the rudder. Big improvement over micro. A bit tough to mix (its thick, but be patient), but it also sands like a dream. Both products are available from Aircraft Spruce. Be advised that they just reformulated the primer. Used to be some coats of Smooth Prime followed by Silver Shield for UV protection. but now the UV protection is in the Smooth Prime and the Silver Shield is no longer required. Try it, you'll like it! Fred Moreno, | ||
| Tom Hutchison |
Thanks for posting Fred. Fred is a regular contributer to the Lancair Mailing List. Just don't "fly like his brother" . I wonder how the PolyFiber system would work on the gel coat Express (and Glasair) uses. Frank here at Express suggests you use some kind of UV protection with the gel coat. I have heard nothing but great things about the PolyFiber systems. Tom | ||
| LOUIE LACY |
GLEN LONG TIME NO SEE. LOU LACY I AM TRYING THE POLY FIBRE PAINT AND HAVING PRETTY GOOD LUCK . I LIKE THE PRIMER BUT ROLLING IT ON WITH THOSE SMALL ROLLERS DOES NOT WORK YOU END UP WITH ORANGE PEEL WHICH REQUIRES A LOT OF SANDING TO GET OFF. I RECOMMEND SPRAY PAINT ALL THE COATS. I AM ALSO NOT USING THEIR TOP COAT HAVE FOUND BETTER FINISHING PAINT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUFF OUT FOR FINISH THUS SAVING MUCH TIME. LET ME KNOW IF I CAN BE OF ANY HELP LOU LACY | ||
| Glen Farley |
Lou: Thanks for your tip on using the UV Smooth Prime. I have rolled on three coats of primer and indeed find the same "orange peel" problems that you noted. Based on this experience - plus your comments- I plan on spraying the rest of the primer on. Question - Since the majority of the kit came with the gel coat primer - do we really need 6 coats of primer to get adequate UV protection ? The paint really does stick and sand well - I had trouble getting it off a plastic bucket. Glen | ||
| LOUIE LACY |
GLEN I AGREE THERE IS NO REASON TO USE 6 COATS OF UV SMOOTH PRIME. I SWITCHED TO A URETHANE FOR THE FINAL COAT WE SPRAYED A SMALL AREA WITH THE TOP COAT AND DID NOT LIKE THE GLOSS SO SWITCHED. THE UV SMOOTH PRIME REALLY SAND DOWN NICE AND GIVES A GOOD BASE FOR THE FINAL TOP PAINT. DO YOU HAVE YOUR WING INSATLLED YET AND HOW DID YOU DO THE FINAL PINNING. LOU | ||
| Tom R. Hutchison |
I was wondering if the Poly-Fiber Composite Finishing system was compatible with vinyl Ester Resin and gel coats. Glen Farley and Louie Lacy are using it with good results. So I e-mailed Poly-Fiber and posed the question to them. Here is their response: ----------------------- I am building an Express Series 2000 kit plane. The composite system uses Vinyl Ester Resin like the Glasair/Glastar kits. (The same company makes kit parts for both Express and Glasair). My question is: Does your Composite Finishing System work for vinyl ester composite construction, particularly parts with a gel coat finish on them? MR. HUTCHINSON, THE SYSTEM WORKS WELL WITH VINYL ESTER GELCOAT. MANY GLASAIR, GLASTAR, SEAWIND BUILDERS HAVE USED IT. IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ALL RESIN SYSTEMS. THANKS Jon Goldenbaum | ||
| LOUIE LACY |
Glen Just a note about using the poly fibre system. I thought I had enough weight forward of the hinge line on my rudder and elevators but by using 5 coats of primer i ended up with the elevators and rudder being too heavy now i am having to sand off all the paint and start over. So word to wise check the weight before during and after the paint will save a lot of extra work llacy@netease.net | ||
| Paul Fagerstrom |
Lou, Perhaps another thought would be to add significantly more lead to the counter wieght then drill out a hole and fill with filler so wieght can be easily added if the control surface ever had to be repainted. We ran into this problem with 90ED. | ||
| LOUIE LACY |
Paul I think I got my controls too heavy when I was building them and have already added about 3/4 in to the inside of the counter weight area so as not to make the entire forward portion of the elevator out of lead I had not choice but to take some weight off the elevators. I stripped them down (no small job) repainted and now have them balanced. I thing a note to everyone doing this would be to pay attention to the closeout and watch any extra weight on the aft portion of elevators and rudder LOU | ||
| LOUIE LACY |
Anyone had a problem getting the protective cover off the prop spinner. I have left mine on for a couple of years and now it will not peel off. I am worried about using any chemical on the expensive aluminum. Any suggestions would be appreciated llacy@netease.net | ||
| Tom R. Hutchison |
Can't say I have ever specifically tried to remove the protective covering of a prop spinner. I would guess its a plastic of some kind glued to the aluminum. My favorite solvent for adhesives is Naphtha (good old Ronsonol Lighter Fuel). Its great for removing labels etc. I can't imagine it ever hurting aluminum, but if you were concerned you could try a little on a hidden surface. | ||
| Jerry Sjostrand |
Hello Louie, Your problem with the spinner covering might be solved by projecting a heat lamp into the spinner and letting the heat release the film. Try a spot first using a heat gun. I sent your message to Reinhard Metz {metz1@lucent.com} (Phone: 630-668-8562) in Chicago as he had a similar problem with the window coating. I had hoped that he would have contacted you by now with some ideas as he did solve his problem somehow. My guess is that a solvent is not going to penetrate the protective film. Let me know how you make out. Jerry Sjostrand | ||
| geosync |
After reading Louie's message about the elevator counterweight, I am wondering if someone could give me a dimension on how wide the counter weight should be. I am building a CT model. The EDI manual calls for a modification to add one half inch to the counterweight area, but I am not sure what that would make the overall width. Louie, how wide is you | ||
| Jay Villalva |
Steve, I have the foam plugs that I used to make molds for the counter weights for both the rudder and elevator (CT). You're welcome to them. I haven't finished the filling/painting portion of the process yet and the adaquecy of the weights are yet to be determined. But, right now, I would have to put an awfull lot of paint and filer to on the surfaces to get to the point of not having enough lead. My goal is to be able to actually drill out lead (from as close to the hinge line as possible) to balance the surfaces after painting and minimze the overal weight. Louie didn't mention how much weight he was actually working with. I couldn't tell you what my weights ended up weighing as my control surfaces are already closed out. Anyway, making the control surfaces as light as possible should be every one's concern. | ||
| Bill Copeland |
Geosync: We are just in the process of re-balancing our elevators. There is some question as to whether we will have any option short of modifing the horizontal stab one way or the other. We added 3/4" to the "weight" portion of the elevators when we built them originally. I believe our cast weights were somewhere in the area of 8 1/4 lbs each. If you want my recommendation, I suggest you add at least 1" and perhaps as much as 1 1/4" to be safe. It is much easier to end up with too much room for lead than it will be to add space. By the way, Jim Ward, a builder from San Jose who is now in the CBROS hangar brought a gallon can nearly full of POWDERED lead. This seems like the perfect solution,when mixed with a minimum of resin, to make counter weights without melting lead. Let me know if you want a source reference. Bill C. | ||
| Mark Rich New member Username: Mrich Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2003 |
Finally getting around to doing a paint job. Does anyone have three view drawing of a CT I can use to design a color scheme? | ||
| Chris M. Unregistered guest |
I'll e-mail you some original CT 3-view drawings I have from years back Mark. - Chris | ||
| Steve Christensen New member Username: Stevec Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2002 |
Chris, I would appreciate it if you could email me those drawings also. Steve Christensen | ||
| Werner Maag, CH8174 Stadel, Switzerland New member Username: Wmaag Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2003 |
finally I am also getting to the paint job for the fuselage and my daughter is creating some designs. Has anyone real graphic data of the outlines or even the body of the EXPRESS S-90 to implement into an adobe illustrator or photoshop program? Werner Maag | ||
| Chris M. Unregistered guest |
Werner: I may be able to create the S-90 lines to work in Illustrator for you. My free time is short this week, but I'll see what I can do for you. Steve: I'll e-mail you a set, most likely this evening when I get a moment. - Chris | ||
| Mark Rich New member Username: Mrich Post Number: 23 Registered: 01-2003 |
The paint job is finally done! The prep work got out of hand as I continued to find things to improve before shooting the paint (I'm sure you all know how that goes). While the process had a few hitches, the end results came out well. A few notes: Most of the bodywork was done with Split Second bodyfiller. Its lightweight, fast curing and sands well. I shot Featherfill primer surfacer. It went on well, cured quickly and was easily sanded. The whole project took two gallons. Next I used Montana epoxy primer. I read suggestions to use an epoxy primer over a polyester filler if using Urethane finishes to ensure a high gloss. 1 gallon. For the paint, I used House of Kolor products. First KS10 Sealer followed by BC26 White basecoat. 1 gallon each. I used a mid-coat clear (SG100). I put pearls into the first 2 mid-coats follwed by 2 coats without. I was concerned about the pearls being uneven giving my limited painting skills but it worked fine. For the graphics I taped and shot a fine gray metallic over the mid-coat clear followed by three coats of mid-coat clear mixed with Kandies. I was able to fade the colors from green to blue quite well using the tinted clear. Finally, I shot top coat clear (two coats), sanded (600 grit) and reshot two final coats before finish sanding (1500 to 2500) and polishing. I had no painting experience before hand but the HoK products were very easy to use and went on well. Great selection of colors.  | ||
| Roger Spencer New member Username: Roger Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2001 |
Looks beautiful Mark. | ||
| Steve Christensen New member Username: Stevec Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2002 |
Your plane looks fantastic. I am in the process of painting mine so time will tell for it. But your job is definitely inspiring. |