|Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 10:29 am: |
Has anyone else installed the the inboard ribs (rib J) upside-down? I was installing my landing gear, trying to figure out what didn't look right, when I figured it out, the rib was upside-down. In a panic, I went back to the original Wheeler contruction manual to figure out where I went wrong. After careful review of the rib J installation procedure (not much to it), I determined that I would have done it exactly the same (if I didn't know what I know now - of course). The only reference to the orientation of the rib is in the installation drawings in that part of the procedure (maybe there is a revision that I missed with the clarification?). Help! Has anyone else done this? Is there any way to modify what I have without completly re-doing the ribs? Yes, both my wings are closed. My first thought was to move the required cut out by 'cutting and pasting', then applying additional layers of glass (how many???) to provide the required strength. Another thought is to move the cut out to the right location (I still need the access for installation and maintenance) and use a steel strong-back larger then the cut out to provide the foundation.
|Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2000 - 01:03 pm: |
Do not want you to think that Jay did not get any responses to his dilemma. At the least Jerry Sjostrand and I replied by separate E-mail messages, and there may have been others. If you are interested in the discussion, let me know and I will forward the string to you.
Roger L Spencer
|Posted on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 07:00 pm: |
I am interested in the discussion. I bought a project last November, an auriga express, and am just about to start work on it. I have been following the discussions since before I purchased the project trying to absorb everyone's wisdom but have not posted a message. My wings have not been closed but they have all the outboard ribs in place. The inboard ones have not been installed and I certainly would like to make sure I get the inboard ones installed correctly. My construction manual is suspect in some areas and that has been a concern. I have been talking to Larry Olsen about getting new manuals to work with recognizing that there have been a number of construction changes, but these will not be available for another month or so.
|Posted on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 09:11 pm: |
Happy to send you the complete string(including pictures from Jay). I just need your E-mail address.
Tom R. Hutchison
|Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 07:00 am: |
I almost made the same mistake on one of my wings. I had the rib hot-glued and q-celled into place when one of the Express folks caught it before I started laminating the bid on the rib. The Builder's Assist program sure paid off that time.
Bill, if you wouldn't mind posting a synopsis of the solution, I (and others) would be interested. I was pondering how I would try to fix it. No solution I could come up with was very pleasing or elegant. Ugh, a nasty problem!!
|Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 05:38 pm: |
The orientation of Rib J should have the thin ligament against the UPPER WING SKIN (UWS) - Just in case somebody was wondering.
I'm well into fixing the inboard landing gear problem. I've received some great feedback on the subject from Jerry Sjostrand, Bill Copeland and Sven Erikson. I can send the photo's and discription via email to any one that would be interested (I haven't figured out how to place photos here, in this forum). This email info will updated as I complete the steps.
|Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 11:53 am: |
Sorry, but I have to ask the question. It's been a long time since I installed rib J in my wings, but I am sure the supplied rib was roughly shaped to the contour of the wing skins and the hole for the end of the gear leg was also cut out. Were some ribs supplied without the rough shape and precut hole? If not, it would be very difficult to know how to install this rib unless you already have the gear leg installation details.
|Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 02:58 pm: |
It wasn't really difficult to install the rib, installing the rib with the proper orientation was. The builder should look ahead in the procedure to see just out the inboard landing gear brackets attach to rib-J. I think this would have caused me to question the orientation that I was selecting. Just looking at the rib-J installationprocedure would likely lead you down the dark path I took.
The other question that was asked, is the shape of the airfoil. When rib-J is installed, the wings are already closed out. You trim the rib to best fit and glue it in place. There is definitely a difference in upper and lower airfoils. As I look down my wings, the general shape is maintained from inboard to outboard ends. Still it makes you wonder, we have upper airfoil shapes for setting the flaps and ailerons, but what about the lower skins?
|Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 06:45 pm: |
If as you say, it would have been difficult to install the rib the right way up, maybe the precut hole was in the wrong place. I say this because the difference between the contour of the upper and lower wing skins at that location is quite significant, thus making it difficult to install the rib the wrong way.
|Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 05:09 pm: |
I'm thinking you're on to something here. When I was making the templates for the flap and aileron settings, I did save the other half of the templates. These are the computer generated blueprints of the airfoils at BL36 and BL137.
When I set the templates up to compare the airfoils they match. This photo (with the plug installed, the scarf and initial lay-ups done) shows the 'wing template' (BL 36) and my left wing in comparision.
|Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 01:32 pm: |
As I have not installed rib J in my wings due to the former troubles with cracked landing gear fittings I was slightly worried about making the same mistake as I have fitted the ribs in the wings but not glued them yet. I remember I did not sand off very much to have them fit. Looknig at your pictures and comparing to my ribs,I can say that my rib J are correctly made (by the factory) and will fit in the wings as they should. My ribs are marked with 'Wheeler aircraft company' and an unreadable month 1989.
|Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 06:36 pm: |
This has been a learning experience. I really thought, at first, that I installed the rib-J up-side-down, after John's comments and comparison with my 'wing templates' I am much more comfortable with the way my rib-J's are installed. I thought I may have messed up the air foil and who knows what else. The repairs to make my inboard landing brackets fit are going well and I'm confident that they will be more then adequate in the area of being strong enough.
This is a great place to ask those 'what if?' questions and learn from each others experiences (I specifically didn't mention mistakes - oop's - oh well). Putting in the photos is a piece of cake. Let me know if any one needs any photos of any thing. Ask or not.........so simple.
|Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 08:22 am: |
I have been following all the stories on the installation of Rib J. I have only installed one in my left wing and did not have any problems with it. It went in with very little sanding, so I assumed it was correct. I have since tried to put my other rib in my right wing and it will only go one way. Looking at the pictures in my manual leads me to believe that they are in wrong. Then I went back to section Eight on the gear installation and it shows the inboard gear bracket attached to the lower part of the rib.I have both the Wheeler and Express manuals and they each lead you to believe that the fat part of the cut out is at the top wing skin.
This would require the inboard bracket to be installed pointing down.As far as I can tell all is well and the pictures are wrong. Express copied there pictures from Wheeler.
|Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 08:11 pm: |
This is it for the left Rib-J repairs. It would have been nice to do both at the same time - however, space constraints wouldn't allow it.
The photo I sent above (May 20th) shows the rib with the scafed area lay-ups and sanding complete. The picture below shows basically the same shot (upper wing skin on top). The plate installed to distribute the load. The outboard side of the "plug" joint was scarfed and six plies were placed on each side of the rib. I used the EAC bracket that mounts to Rib-J and centered it on the large plate. I used smaller backing plates for the forward and aft bolts on the large plate.
|Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 08:31 pm: |
|Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 08:30 pm: |
Just curious as to which main gear you have: original Wheeler glass, Auriga glass version, EDI steel, or the new EAC glass gear? I have the Auriga legs and need the Rib R & J brackets & hardware. I'm wondering if the new EAC brackets will work...
|Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 10:19 pm: |
I have a set of original Wheeler glass legs and all the original hardware and a set of EDI steel legs (no hardware). They are for sale - oh by the way. I do want to sell them as a set though.
I didn't have the history on the Wheeler gear legs I received; as some have said that only the first six or so sets were fabricated using a method that didn't cause over heat during the curing process. Supposedly the excess heat caused the Wheeler legs to be weaker. I didn't want to chance it after so much work and decided to get a set of EDI steel legs (back in the EDI days). After talking with Larry this year and checking out the improvements and geometry changes to EAC gear legs (glass) I purchased a set with all the hardware. I'm putting in an IO-540 and wanted the more forward position of the main wheels (better postion for rotation) and I didn't want to use the less sturdy Wheeler brackets (EAC use a tripel tang). The same thing for the nose strut; I got the heavier EAC version - oh by the way, I have an original Wheeler nose wheel strut for sale also.
Larry made the new hardware a direct replacement for the old style. I unbolted the outboard landing gear bracket and bolted in the new EAC hardware.
For fun, I'm including a photo of the inboard and outboard brackets for comparision.
The inboard bracket piece that bolts to the gear leg still has two tangs as before, but the old style elongated hole is no longer (hard to see in the photo). Also hard to see in the new outboard bracket is the angle that rotates the main gear forward (the new style are aluminum).
|Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2000 - 07:38 pm: |
the mess i read really helped me . im just getting back to my express after a busy year, and was not sure as to the properway rib j goes in the wing. if i have it correct the thin side goes toward the uws? and what about rib r its the opposite ? say its so! next question? aft wing connecting plates are covered with bid then bolted? how many layers of bid on the forward side of the aft shear web before the plates are put in place and covered over? the forward shear web had quite a bid build up before plates went on
and is it recommended to do the false skin procedure to inboard side of rib j or do this after close out?
tom ware nj
boy its hard to get back in the swing of building when your away from it so long!
|Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 09:55 pm: |
Welcome back to the project. With the wings in the jigs and the wing skin making the proper contact with the jigs (UWS Down) the fit for the Rib-J amd Rib-R should only require minor trimming to make a good fit. You right about the the thin side going the way you said above. It's so.
The questions about the aft shear web lay-ups is more complex and I wouldn't feel comfortable telling anybody a 'number' of layers with out going back thru the instructions from the beginning of the aft shear web installion procedure. I don't have that part of my instructions in a readily accessible location (translate that into I can't find it right now).
As far as using the false skin proceudre, I used the false skins for my Rib-R. I can't even imagine trying to do Rib-R with the wings closed out. As far as the Rib-J -??? I did mine after I closed my wings. I don't know how the factory support folks are doing Rib-J now.
Hope some of this helps. Maybe somebody that did these procedures more recently then I can provide some better in-put.
Brian McKinney (Bmckinney)
|Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:51 am: |
Rib R Questions...
I am doing the "false skin" layups on the right wing for Rib R. The manual calls for 6 layers that lap on to the skins and spar, and 7 more layers on the just the rib face and spar.
I've done the first 6 outboard side laminates and the resulting flange seems a bit thin. The Express sample wing at Sun-n-Fun 2000 had a flange that appeared to be thicker but not quite as wide as the dimensions in my manual. Anyone have comments?
Also, are the new Express's still requiring the builder to make the Rib R layups as described above? Tom's journal shows his Rib R being built, but it appears the flange pieces are pre-made and are being bonded and clamped to Rib R.
BTW, if anyone is interested I'm putting pictures and updates on my website as I progress. I also added some new pictures of Reinhard Metz's Express he sent me yesterday.
Tom R. Hutchison (Tomhutch)
|Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 09:36 am: |
Express has a tool (designed and manufactured by Jim Butler) for creating a very strong Rib R flange. You might be able to buy the premade flange from Express. Call Larry if interested.
Send me your address (privately if you wish) and I'll burn you a CD with all the digital pics I have so far.
Post Number: 17
|Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 03:17 pm: |
I have to redo plates for fixing the landing to ribs (vertical plates in each side of the rib) someone knows which aluminuim type is it?
Also what steel are both bolts where pivots the box that contains the leg?
Darrell M Peterson
Post Number: 9
|Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 04:53 pm: |
Jorge Baccaro, We have just completed new assembly drawings for the new Grove aluminum landing gear. We are useing new steel frame plates on both sides. please contact us at the factory so that we can understand what your needs are. 360-864-6271
Post Number: 5
|Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 05:44 pm: |
I'm glad I have spent today reading through some of the threads in this forum.
After reading this thread I went out and inspected the wing I have opened, the 2 wings are stacked for storage space, and rib R is installed upside down. It's somewhat obvious as I look down the airfoil and the rest of the ribs are below the spar cap and rib R sticks up above the spar cap.
I'm the second person building this CT model, kit number 076. I'm still setting up the wing jigs.
I would like information on the new aluminum gear to replace the original fiberglass gear that I have. Now that I have to remove the rib this makes changing the gear a logical option.
Darrell M Peterson
Post Number: 11
|Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 10:07 am: |
David,please send me your E-Mail address so that we can correspond,We also have new plans & photos to make the assembly Simple. Also the new landing gear ribs are both made of 1/2" 40# ,for added strength. Call 360-864-6271.