| Author | Message | ||
     Jeff Dingbaum (Aviators) |
I got the following in email from Dow earlier in the fall. I asked Larry about it and he didn't have an answer and hasn't been able to get back with me yet. Have any others out there seen this or the new data? I am assuming the new Derakane will be compatible with the old, but you know what they say about assumptions. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:46:35 -0500 From: "Siebert, Mark (MA)" To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Subject: DERAKANE MOMENTUM* Epoxy Vinyl Ester Resin Product Consolidation 2040 DOW CENTER October 13, 2000 Dow will discontinue several standard DERAKANE* epoxy vinyl ester resin products in favor of our new, preferred DERAKANE MOMENTUM* epoxy vinyl ester resin product technology. The following product categories will be phased out according to the transition dates listed below: Discontinued effective December 1, 2000 Primary offer effective December 1, 2000 DERAKANE 470-300 DERAKANE MOMENTUM 470-300 DERAKANE 510C-350 DERAKANE MOMENTUM 510C-350 DERAKANE 510-300 Discontinued effective February 1, 2001 Primary offer effective February 1, 2001 DERAKANE 411-350 DERAKANE MOMENTUM 411-350 DERAKANE 441-400 DERAKANE MOMENTUM 441-400 Dow is encouraged that you, our important customer, are confirming the benefits of MOMENTUM technology--lighter color than standard DERAKANE making it easier to see and remove entrapped air during rollout, lower levels of promoter, and little or no amine accelerators or gel-time extenders for lower cost, higher reactivity of MOMENTUM based resins leading to 20% faster cycle times, and faster green strength development. All these advantages yield tremendous savings for you to capture greater value in your markets. This product consolidation initiative is intended to benefit you by reducing your inventory, saving floor space, doubling inventory shelf life, and reducing gelation. These benefits, in turn, maximize your productivity and stretch your working capital. Your Dow Technical Sales Representative can answer any questions you might have to assist you through this transition. We appreciate your valuable business. Thank you for making DERAKANE MOMENTUM epoxy vinyl ester resin products an integral part of the value you provide to your customers. Sincerely, > > Mark A. Siebert Global Industry Manager Composites *Trademark of The Dow Chemical Company | ||
| tom ware (Tommie) |
is any one using the new resin? momentum? if so whom is supplying it and at what price? i checked some suppliers here on the east coast and it seems to be almost 3 x the price of the old stuff. | ||
| Wayne |
I have noticed differences in the gals of resin I have gotten from EAC. I have also gotten Vinyl ester from a place near Dayton, OH. Fiber Glast developments Corp. They are on the web. Gallon is $50 and Mekp is $5 /8oz. I have made test samples and it seems to cure/stick well to the parts made by EAC. I have used it to mold my own parts and it setts faster and harder, also wets out better. I have NOT used it on any critical parts as I do not want to mix the two products. But it seems that over time I have gotten different resin from the same source so you never know. FGDC did not know, or wouldn't tell me where they get the stuff. It sure seems to work good. Wayne | ||
| paul mikaelsen New member Username: Pmikaelsen Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2002 |
Has any one had any good or bad results using DERAKANE 411-350 VINYL ESTER RESIN. I am building my Express in Bolivia South America and are having a hard time getting resin. I have found a factory that uses derakane 411-350 so need to know if it is compatable with what comes from EAC. | ||
| Hans Georg Schmid New member Username: Hgschmid Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2001 |
In the beginning I used Derakane 411-45 but soon it became unavailable in Switzerland. Thanks to Henry Walser I found a company in France that was willing and able to sell Derakane 411-350. If this source would dry up it would probably get really difficult… My first aircraft, a Long-Ez, was built with Epoxy (a German product used by the sailplane industry). I liked to be able to build light, the low viscosity was right and especially the easy availability was important. If I needed epoxy I always had it within a day or two. Now I have to order Derakane well in advance and it has to be brought over a border. Thanks to Heiner Walser this works fine till now. All in all I had good experiences with this Vinyl Ester Resin. What I like with the Derakane is the seemingly low toxicity, the variable gel time, the good adherence even in difficult corners and the chemical stability against all sorts of fluids. If I would have had the choice, at least in Europe I would have gone with a modern aviation approved epoxy from the beginning purely because of its wide availability. A chemical engineer with a wide experience (Suter / Swiss Composites) told me, this would have been no problem as dried vinyl ester (and of course epoxy) are “inert”, which means chemically dead. Because of this, he said, it would have been no problem to change. I however have no second opinion on this. If you do not find Derakane in your country, changing to epoxy might be a possibility. Before changing I certainly would approach the manufacturer to be absolutely certain that you can safely do it. Hans Georg Schmid, Switzerland | ||
| Jeff Dingbaum New member Username: Aviators Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2000 |
I just recieved a batch of Derakane 411-350 from Aircraft Spruce. It is a little lighter in color than any of the stuff that I've used before. I'm wondering if they or their supplier have finally exhausted their supply of the old stuff. I know that unpromoted resin lasts longer, but once you add the cobalt and ? then it has a short shelf life. One of the reasons for speculation is that it doesn't come HAZMAT any longer. I inquired about shipping and the woman told me it was ORM, but not hazmat. Shipping from Spruce was $16, but no $40 hazmat charge added. So I'm wondering if it is the "new formulation". Jeff | ||
| Brian McKinney New member Username: Bmckinney Post Number: 53 Registered: 05-2000 |
I've bought three gallons of 411-350PA (promoted) and MEKP over three years from AS and never had a HAZMAT charge for shipping. I haven't done any scientific tests, but it appears to produce the same final quality of layups as factory parts. Brian | ||
| Jeff Dingbaum New member Username: Aviators Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2000 |
I got my last gallon of resin from Express. They charged me hazmat for it. They were a little slow in getting it to me because Gayle had to stop by someplace else on her way home from work to drop it off at a hazmat trained shipper. Since I don't think that they make any money on a gallon of resin, and Allyn had enough to do, I just got this batch from spruce. Actually, come to think of it I got the gallon before that one from Express as well, so it's been a while since I ordered from Spruce. Maybe Express has been shipping it hazmat and it's not really required. Brian, how's your project coming along? I haven't seen any update on your website, but it sounds like you're plugging away building instead. Jeff | ||
| Paul Fagerstrom Unregistered guest |
When Larry & I first had Express, Larry did not ship the resin "Hazmat". However, during one of the shippings a can was smashed causing a leak. We were told (and I think fined) that the promoted resin had to shipped hazmat. If my memory is correct it was because the promoting agent was technically "hazmat" even though the promoted resin has a very low toxicity, probably lower than many liquids shipped. | ||
| CBROS Unregistered guest |
Our recent experience has been that a gallon of resin shipped by Spruce is mailed haz mat. We got a gallon in November that turned to "jello" before we opened it in December. They were very accommodating and immediately shipped a replacement - which is OK. I asked if they wanted me to return the "Jello" they told me that since I did not have a haz mat "licence" that I could not mail it. Subsequently, I picked up the "jello" container by mistake - thinking it was the replacement - and thought we had another bad gallon - which we didn't. I called and told them we had another "bad" batch and they again immediately shipped another gallon. When I discovered my mistake I called and confessed and offerred to send it back, but they again said I couldn't do it, so just keep it! (Which we have!!!) Let's hear it for Spruce, and watch out for brain farts. | ||
| Roy Davis New member Username: Royhdavis Post Number: 27 Registered: 01-2003 |
Jeff, thank you for your understanding of how things work here at Express. For us to ship hazmat we have to send someone to school, so we have it done by one of our suppliers as a favor. It involves a lot of time that would better be spent making airplane parts. It would help us to let Spruce do what they do best, distribute materials, and let us do our thing of making parts. | ||
| Jim Oyler New member Username: Midniteoyl Post Number: 75 Registered: 07-2003 |
Sounds cool. Can you swing a discounted price for Express builders? Jim |