| Author | Message | ||
     Tom Hutchison |
The following was posted by Fred Moreno on the Lancair Mailing List. I am very interested in the Sierra Flight Systems MFD and am seriously considering it for my own plane. --------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:17:38 EDT From: Fredmoreno@aol.com To: lancair.list@olsusa.com Subject: Sierra Fight Systems test flight Message-ID: <cf39d85.2511d772@aol.com> I visited the Sierra booth at Oshkosh and wrote about it in my OSH trip report. Last week end I went to the Golden State Fly In In at Castle/Merced airport for a test flight in their C-210. It is VERY impressive. The display showed towers in the same place they were out the window, terrain (Sierra Nevada foot hills to the East), runways of airports we passed over on our way to Fresno Chandler, and the "highway in the sky" representation on final approach is especially impressive and very intuitive. There is enormous flexibility and lots of information can be displayed based on your preferences. The pictures in the brochure and the web site do not do justice to the presentations in the cockpit. It takes some getting used to, and a short test hop is not enough. To use this stuff the way it is intended and with the level of precision that it allows requires some practice, but will improve your piloting skills. The pitch, roll, and directional information is MUCH more accurate and sensitive than we are accustomed to in our mechanical instruments. As an example, the heading information is spread across the top of the screen, and one degree heading changes are large and easy to see. It also means that you can see rudder wiggles and yoke wiggles more easily. As a result, you have to learn to fly with more precision which will make you a better, smoother pilot. Situational awareness is a no-brainer. Flying in the haze of the valley with limited visibility was no problem. It was all laid out on the screen. Flying home in my C-182 with a King HSI, I was amazed how much I had to move the airplane around to see detectable movement on the DG compared to the sensitivity shown by the Sierra display. I was told that software upgrades and other improvements will further improve the already-impressive displays with greater smoothness and even more rapid updates (which are now several times per second). I quizzed the Sierra folks for at least 2 hours on the equipment, and then about their business. Unlike many supppliers, there was virtually no BS. I got straight answers, and when somebody did not know or was not sure, they said so with no bluffing. Very refreshing. Much of the business information is confidential, but they do have some "deep pocket" supporters that provide the financial muscle needed to take this all the way through certification, planned for next year, and a lot of interest in the airframe community from various big names. They have also been invited to participate in a military working group working on improved visual displays for fighter and helicopter pilots. This is based on their work over the last several years on the "highway in the sky" presentation which they have developed and continue to refine. They have also obtained the support of one of the NASA national resource specialists who focusses on cockpit display and man-machine interactions and will use his input to further refine the product. One interesting effect of the Sierra installation is that it permits the panel to be substantially simplified since it displays attitude, direction terrain, map, airspeed, VSI, altitude, and engine data (along with a lot of other stuff). So all the steam gages are replaced by three pieces of glass (two large, one small) and all you need in addition is a CDI/glide slope indicator, and back up instruments. I did a layout and found I could put the two large Sierra displays, CDI/glideslope, and backup instruments (attitude gyro, airspeed, altitude, turn coordinator) all on the left panel leaving the right panel virtually open for Jepp book cubbyholes, CD player, and CD storage. All in all, it was a very impressive and interesting day. I guess I will have to put my MasterCard in the vise and see if I can squeeze out a bit more money..... Fred Moreno | ||
| Ralph Krongold |
For those of you who are interested in a state-of-the-art flight & engine monitoring system, but at a cost that's closer to 10%-15% of your airframe cost -- not 100% of your airframe cost! -- you might want to check out the IK2000 at www.i-ktechnologies.com (be sure to type a hyphen between the letter "i" and the letter "k"). The IK2000 combines 12 instruments in two independent, redundant, fault-tolerant displays. Most parameters are displayed both graphically -- using bright, tri-colored vertical bar graphs -- and numerically in a large back-lit LCD display. The IK2000 monitors KIAS, altitude, RPM, MP, oil pressure, oil temp, fuel pressure, voltage, fuel flow (gph and percent of fuel remaining), and 4 or 6 EGTs and CHTs. An Altitude Hold feature tracks deviation from a selected altitude. You see everything at once -- no scrolling through multiple screens. And it all fits into a standard radio rack and weighs just 3 lbs! The IK2000 is configured specifically for the parameters of each individual aircraft and engine, and can be used with all 4- and 6-cylinder engines, including Continental, Lycoming, Rotax, Jabiru, Franklin and more. Just add a GPS/Comm and a transponder and you're ready to fly -- at a cost that's much more "down-to-earth" than anything comparable! Ralph Krongold I-K Technologies (310) 745-1130 | ||
| LOUIE LACY New member Username: Llacy Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-1999 |
Has anyone bought or installed the EFIS-D10A by DYNON Avionics. I saw one at their display at Oshkosh and it looked pretty impressive.Any comments?? Lou | ||
| Eric Holmberg New member Username: Erich Post Number: 97 Registered: 05-2002 |
Hi Lou, I have the EFIS-D10A from Dynon. I was working on for a company around the corner, so I stopped by to take a look at their development team. They are a nice group of people and their product is also very good. I have played with the thing in the garage and done absolutely everything to it and it tracks very well. The only downside would be the small screen size compared to other devices. I'm very happy with it, especially given the cost since it's less than the normal 6 mechanical instruments. -Eric | ||
| Charles M. Robinson New member Username: F15epilot Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2004 |
Here's a thought I'm pursuing and I'll post the results on the forum. I originally looked at using a PDA (iPaq or Axiom) to run both flight and engine data via PCFlight Systems software and equipment, but didn't like the display size. My 19-year old son suggested looking at the new 'Carputer' gadgets (check Ebay or do a Google or Yahoo search; you won't find them in Best Buy yet). These are full Pentium-4 class machines running on 12v with fanless CPUs. The displays are touch-screens in 7" or 8" size, made to fit on top of a car's radio center stack. The CPUs are similarly sized to slide into the radio stack or fit under the seat. This opens up a lot of options, as the CPU can be taken back home, connected to the internet/LAN, and updated (or be used as a home computer). OH yes. The CPU/s can be had for under $400 (case/MB/CPU/HD) and the displays are under $300. Makes it a lot cheaper than the current EFIS systems, which are by design, a single function system. I'll keep you posted. | ||
| wayne Unregistered guest |
I ordered a Dynon (3month back log) to put in the rt side for IMC back up to my vac gyros. If I get bored this winter I may go ahead and put in the left side and move my vac AI to the rt. | ||
| Allyn Roe Unregistered guest |
The Dynon's still are back loged with the new D-10A. I called today for one of our orders of multiple units and we are number 162 on the list (up from 200 something a few weeks ago). We are installing them in all the glass panels as a back up unit; the internal battery really makes this great. Price an electric gyro and you will see the cost savings. | ||
| Doug Preston New member Username: Dprestonsr Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2004 |
Here is a recent post about Dynon 10............ DPrestonsr --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net> I want to thank those who have inquired as to the errors I have been getting on the Dynon based on some Findings From Dan Checkoway's post on his website here: http://www.rvproject.com/20040901.html Dan has done an excellent good job summarizing the issue there. I suggest you read that first. To summarize, myself and others, have been getting errors on the horizon function of the Dynon EFIS. In one case it really scared me and as a result I have grounded me 6A from any IFR work. Most of the errors are a lean in the roll axis by as much as 7-10 degrees. Pitch errors in my case have been as much as 20 degrees. Here is a brief synopsis of what and how it is happening based on some e-mail to Dynon: I flew 6 hours today and worked the Dynon hard. I can now easily reproduce the lean. I started after departure at 2500rm and went to 1900rmp 10rpm at a time with 1 minute intervals, and back to 2700rpm At 2560, the leaning happens, it slowly oscillates from right to left, and back again. I can come off it by 15rmp on either side and it resumes accurate operation. I can give you further details but I now can quickly reproduce it, and I took some shots of how bad it is out on the lean. You will notice that on one shot, the bank indicator on the right shows wings completely level, autopilot on, and it was silky smooth air. Also I have seen it at other RPMs today. I saw it in formation at 2480 but could not troubleshoot as we were practicing. I was able to see the pitch out during this activity, but not by much. 2 degrees maybe, but it was out and I could watch it happen with the leaning at the same rpm, although the pitch was not as reproducible as the roll problem. took off from home base, early turn out, climb in smooth morning air to 3500'agl level off and the d10 compass heading was swinging a d10 being erratic on the screen. That caught my eye. At the same time, d10 showed me in a 20 degree climb and I was level. In about 6 seconds the compass stabilized, and in about 20 seconds the pitch stabilized to level. Next on a different day, I saw another example of the leans in roll information by about 4 degrees. A very pronounced lean showing a right hand turn 4 degrees or so, autopilot flying the plane straight and level, compass on the d10 holding steady. It would eventually, after 1 minute or so get level, then lean again. This went on for about 6 minutes. Then fine. I have seen this behavior in the unit a dozen times over the 700 hours of flight with it. In another case, the one that really scared me, I came out of 15,000' on a long hard decent to 1000'AGL and leveled off in MVFR vis 2, mist, and the dynon showed I was in a steady climb of 20 degrees. I was clearly level cross checking other instruments and was low. After a min or so it cleared up and resumed normal operation. This is the largest deviation in pitch I have seen. I took a big deep breath and thanked god I was not IMC. If I were, I may not have caught the pitch error and might have put the nose into the ground. Needless to say, no more IFR till it is resolved. So the above e-mail excerpts will give you and idea of the issue. Like Dan stated on his webpage, I have been in contact with Dynon and they are taking this very seriously. I have been impressed with their responsiveness and professionalism. Clearly this is serious and Dynon says "this is the most important item on their plate." Now, we have not found a fix yet. I seem to be the only guy who can easily reproduce the problem, but I would bet, as I did with the EMI item, that this is a fleet wide problem. Dynon says I have the most hours on their unit in the field. Perhaps that explains some of why I have been able to get to a reproducible stage. They are working hard and I am confident they will get to the bottom of it. They have offered to refund my money. I haven't taken it yet as I want to help them work out the problem. This is a terrific unit and I am confident they will nail it down. Until then, remember this is an experimental device and should be treated as such. If you have one of these in your plane, keep this in mind as you fly. Picture of a lean here: Notice bottom right Trio Autopilot shows wings level, as they were. http://www.mstewart.net/deletesoon/dynonlean.jpg Regards, Mike Stewart | ||
| Jim Butler Unregistered guest |
I just received my D-10A yesterday, that has been on back-order since before Oshkosh. I intend to install it on the right side as a back-up unit to everything else. My plan is for it to come in very handy in the event of a total electrical failure. Jim | ||
| Eric Holmberg New member Username: Erich Post Number: 98 Registered: 05-2002 |
Thanks for the info Mike/Doug. It looks like we may need to isolate the unit from shock in some fashion that will eliminate the vibration harmonics. Time to go for dynamic EFIS balancing along with the prop :P | ||
| Rob Jordan Unregistered guest |
Charles, I have a similar setup to what you suggest in my express I wrote the software but I only monitor the engine systems and do the flight enterainment with it. I choose not to do the flight instruments. There is alot to making a system like this work in areas many people would never think about. | ||
| Jim Butler Unregistered guest |
Well, I've got good news, and bad news regarding the Dynon EFIS. Good news, I contacted Dynon, they are aware of the problem the RV6 people have experienced, have been able to re-create the problem, and are confident they can design a software fix. It seems the unit is sensitive to certain vibration frequency's, but they think they can solve the problem, and people will be able to download updated software over the internet. Bad news, while the Dynon unit can tilt up or down 30 degrees, the unit must be mounted so the screen is perpindicular to the direction of travel. I wanted to mount it on in front of the co-pilot, and that part of my panel is angled towards the pilot's side. After talking with Dynon, we both have determined that the unit won't work in my airplane because of this angle. I could cobble up some sort of wedge type mounting, but I'm afraid it would look like it was cobbled up. Good news, at least for Allyn. My unit is going back, so your place in the back-log line will move up by one. Jim | ||
| ali moghaddas New member Username: Amoghadd Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2003 |
Has anyone looked at the Grand Rapid's EFIS (http://www.grtavionics.com/). I saw them at Sun & Fun. Their EFIS unit has remote sensors, but it costs $6000 (VS $2000 for Dynon) with more bells & whistles than Dynon's. Ali | ||
| Charles M. Robinson New member Username: F15epilot Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2004 |
The system I was looking to install came from PC Flight Systems (http://www.pcflightsystems.com/epanel.html). Instead of their glass panel, which is a big part of that cost, I intend to mount two 8" displays (touch screen), a portable Pentium-class PC, and retain my 'round dials' as the primary references for IMC. The PCFLIGHT epanel, with full engine monitor sensors, can be had for under $9K, which includes a year of software updates. Just the Inertial attitude reference and air-data modules are under $2K. I guess I can't see the benefits of installing a much higer-priced single-mode system such as the Dynon, when you can install a multi-function system such as PCFlight. In the case of the latter, the inertial reference is mounted separate from the display, which eliminates the Dynon mounting tilt requirement. I don't think the Dynon allows you to customize your display, nor mix engine data, moving map, synthetic Heads Up Display, and moving map, either. There are other open source codes you can download for free and they will run on any windows-based PC (OK, they come from those geeky flight-simulator-playing guys, but are VERY accurate in that usually, those guys want their simulations to be EXACT). Again, I'll rely on my attitude ball and ILS/VOR/CDI for IMC--the situational awareness will come from experience and practice, aided by the visual presentations from the solid-state systems. Just my thoughts. I know others will differ. Chuck | ||
| Jim Butler Unregistered guest |
I have been having trouble with my Avidyne spontaneously rebooting during flight. This happened the first summer after I started flying the airplane, about 4 years ago. I contacted Avidyne and they had me send it in so they could put a second cooling fan on the chip. All went well until about 6 weeks ago, and then it did it again, only it wouldn't come up past the blue screen. I again contacted them, sent it in, and they put in another hard drive. On the first flight after getting it back, it rebooted again. I called them yesterday and they said that they could put in another hard drive. The problem is that the hard drive is obsolete, and they can only put in refurbished ones. They said that I could buy a new unit, at a cost of around $11,500.00. I understand how technology moves forward, and that things become obsolete and are no longer available, but if I include the cost of the subscription, the cost of owning an Avidyne is around $3975.00 per year. This doesn't include sending it back and forth for repairs. I think as an industry we may be getting dazzled by the things computers in airplanes can do, and forgetting about the rapid rate of obsolescense. Needless to say, I'm bummed. Jim | ||
| Steve Christensen New member Username: Stevec Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jim, I'm checking on instruments for my plane and mentioned your post about your Avidyne to Martin Elshire of Aerotronics Inc.. He thought that didn't sound like Avidyne and he would like to check into it more. If you are interested you can call him or email me your phone number and I will forward that to him. Steve Christensen | ||
| Jim Butler Unregistered guest |
Steve, I've also been told by a guy that works for Seagate that another hard drive could be retro-fitted into my unit. One thing I have to consider is that I don't want to have a unit that is "orphaned" by the manufacturer. I can also see Avidyne's point of view of not wanting to put a lot of engineering cost into an "old" model. (Even though in this case old is only 4 years, which is ancient in the computer world, but a newborn baby in the airplane world.) Anyway, I will take all the help I can get. My telephone number is 219-297-4531. Jim | ||
| Louie Lacy New member Username: Llacy Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-1999 |
I have just installed the Dynon Skyview in my Express and need to wire the serial to gray code converter. My question is what is a strobe transponder. I assume my KT76A (10years old) is not this type transponder. It apprears the wireing in different for this type transponder. Any info would be helpful. Lou Lacy | ||
| Jay Villalva New member Username: Jay Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-1999 |
The strobe transponder is not an issue with the KT76A. Dynon Skyview doesn't want you to connect a strobe transponder line anyway - so you'll be leaving this pin open. I assume that you are removing your blind encoder and replacing the gray code input for the KT76A with the gray code output from the Skyview. The 'switched power' line from your KT76A to power your old blind encoder is no longer required - you'll probably want to remove that pin from the KT76A, too. Don't don't forget the calibration/testing requirements of Part 91.411 & 91.413... |